Talk:Alma Elma/@comment-189.10.185.34-20140129182217/@comment-4991168-20140204200632

Okay, this 'battle' is getting tiresome so I can't guarantee answering after it. As any veteran will tell you chances of convincing someone of anything on the internet are incredibly slim.

Also I don’t see how this contradicts my point of view of her being an amoral, opportunist. - she's a self-serving opportunist. Is she amoral? I honestly can't tell.

I seem to recall mentioning her basic personality around 8 times and mentioning I'm not making her out to be a 'good guy', especially not in the beggining.

''There is simply no war going on, not even between the followers of Illias. You just made this up.'' - I suggest you replay the Illias continent again. First of all, Luka, a native of the confident, claims monsters and humans are at war and having never traveled past the continent, is unaware of places where humans and monsters actually live at relative peace. Second of all, Granberia comes there to stop the ongoing flood of heroes from there to other continents, suggesting they're at least a little bothersome to monsters (well duh, they'll kill any monster they're strong enough to kill and escape or gang up on those they can't beat). Third of all, this is the *only* continent where Alma Elma and Tamamo both *actively do anything to cause harm to humans*. It's only in Natalia on Sentora and Illias Continent that Granberia fights human soldiers and goes out of her way to attack someone who isn't a challenge. It's only on Illias Continent that Alma Elma and Tamamo, *two* of the heavenly knights, work together to block the connection between Sentora and Illias. It's only there that people spew out constant "kill monsters" stuff. And then Alma Elma bothers fighting in the Colliseum without killing anyone - it's only when asked to fight seriously at Monster Lord's Castle or when *blocking him on trip from Sentora* that Alma Elma actually kills Luka (or any human onscreen for that matter).

It's only when going into Natalia that the Lamia Sister feels the need to cloak into a human form, since she'd be attacked otherwise.

What's the connection between Illias Continent and Natalia? Strong Illias worship.

And you're telling me there's no war and apparently attempting to ridicule me, too.

a)Than on what terms are we disagreeing?  - Redemption value, basically. As with Erubetie and even Alice, Alma actually has redeeming qualities which would've been wasted if you just killed her. However, it's 100% clear you don't see them, so hence we disagree.

b) I’m just getting tired that the game trivializes the actions of monsters, especially in her case as “playing”. - Illias' worship basically makes most people unwilling to go into relationships with monsters or even commit one-night stands to help them survive. It makes some people unable to do so, heck. Some monsters have this or the war as their "excuse", but I'd like to point out that in case of any other human but Luka, a self-proclaimed "hero", outside of Natalia Continent the "rape" aspect of monsters is taken more lightheartedly. "I got raped and keep coming back" stuff.

c) Sorry, when a fairy throws a frog at some guards that’s what I can see as a naughty action not if you rape someone to death. - Monsters have different physical needs than humans. If they can feed and get rid of their enemy, it's the same deal really. Is that okay? No, that is not okay. Why do you think Luka went out to battle the monsters in the first place?

But is that understandable in some cases? Yes. The others? The others will learn to accept coexistence once it happens, or they will remain sealed to rethink their position, it seems.

Finally, Alma Elma *can rape Luka to death at any point of his journey she wished to, including just smashing him into a pulp once he first reaches the Monster Lord's castle*. Given how other monsters seem completely on high whenever they get a chance to have some of Luka's semen and how they all describe him as delicious and so on and so on and so on, Alma Elma probably has some reason other than fickleness to not rape him (even if she didn't want to rape him to death out of pure curiosity), especially given she's a *succubus*, and for these sperm is the main if not only source of nutrition.

Unless you question that too, but than any argument is pointless. - Again, how many times have I mentioned Alma Elma's chief personality traits by this point? She prioritizes herself and *does* take advantage of the war to both get herself fun and smash the Illias-worshippers into submission at their theorethically strongest point. I pretty much already said that, too. Does prioritizing herself make it impossible for her to have any other motivation?

''…Why? There is absolutely no reason for her to follow some suspicious monster which claims to be the eighth monster lord.'' - Allies of that "suspicious monster" have sealed away the Four Spirits, Alipheese the XVIths power... whereas many of the monsters that are under Black Alice's command receive increased powers and generally get an all-you-can-eat buffet at any area where they win against humans.

Despite her Character she is a monster and therefore believes to a certain extended in strength. - Any of the Heavenly Knights can beat a sealed Alice and Luka's been weakened under their level, too. The opponents seem stronger, their monsters get bonus powers, and she won't be bound by ANY orders in regards as to how she's supposed to play with her victims - INSTEAD of her promise to Luka which binds her to not kill humans and orders from pro-coexistence Alipheese the XVIth. If Alma Elma didn't want to pledge herself to coexistence she'd just have beaten Luka at the Monster Lord's Castle instead of fighting him mostly to train him for what lay on ahead.

In addition BA is allied with Illias which wants to exterminate all monsters - She uses these monsters and allows them to do whatever they want, plus they're only getting stronger under her rule. And there's a Monster Lord at the other end, perfectly willing to at least outwardly do Illias' bidding... unless it's a ploy.

She lets him go because of his skills not because of his worldview. - She lets him go because of the skills she *allowed him to obtain*, heck, even *helped with*. After *holding back*. She willingly creates a situation where she pledges herself to coexistence - essentially limits herself! Or are you forgetting the fact she could've just flown out of the Demon Lord's castle, fight Luka with second level skills while using either/or/both her martial arts and her Succubi skills, and kill him or get herself a grade A toy?

Self quote : "She refuses (...) and yet (...)" is meant to be read as a whole.

Alma Elma would simply like the idea of coexistence as much as she would like the idea of the spider princess for human domestication as long as she can have fun and free happy meals. - and yet, she doesn't pass on free meals, teaching someone inferior to her new skills, negate her own life philosophy, or bother to fly out and battle goddesses with the clear-stated intent to risk their life to help the spider princess. I bet that comes out of the fact that nobody simply told her it's possible to keep humans as farm anim... oh wait every other mentionable succubus in the first two parts is trying to create a town that is a giant human farm.

Cassandra actually believes in the idea of coexistence - Cassandra outright states the idea of coexistence is ridiculous. Alma Elma blames Illias for causing humans to reject monsters, and puts in some effort to ensure coexistence starts in the first place. (For the eleventh time, some effort, especially when you compare what "effort" actually means for someone like her, doesn't mean I think sh'e a messiah all of a sudden). She doesn't joyfully beat the crap out of someone who preaches coexistence like Granberia and especially Erubetie were ready to, she helps him pass further.

Alma Elma has no other option than fight and defeat Hainuwele here. - she can bash her skull in at the castle or opt out of that plan, actually. Nobody said Luka can't bother going to the Ivory Towers himself. He'll move as fast as the wind once the seal on his powers is removed, anyway. Even if she does it out of the sheer bothersomeness of the war, nothing is forcing her to go to his aid and unleash the skills she doesn't want to unleash in public when going to Heaven, and certainly nobody's forcing her to risk her life against whatever Illias passes for. Before she reaches Heaven, Alma Elma has no idea Illias ascended, so she could have every confidence in an unsealed Luka and Alice. She needs to be ordered by Alice to step down to actually do so.

''Can Succubi even love? I see it more as her favorite toy tease.'' - Nobody knows. I guess their views are distorted by their own priorities. Maybe?

Sorry no matter how I look at it, for me It doesn't make slightest bit of sense to portray this Character as one of the good guys. - Similarly to Erubetie, she's an (initially) bad guy with redemption value. She seems to come to far better terms with herself  and her own skills in a world of coexistence after all. Nobody's telling you to see her as a good guy and nobody's ordering you to privately forgive her for what she did just because she put in an effort once Illias threatened Luka and Alice's perfect little world. Heck, personally, I wanted an option to seriously challenge Alma in the colliseum after the game and beat her in front of everyone. I'm not preaching Alma Elma as a light side character, I'm preaching her as a chaotic selfish playful over-eager radical opportunitist with a hope for a better world and redemption value instead of - what you seem to be implying - a sadistic bitch.

Vostan : I smell a "wall of text"-effect :) 

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